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Immortal since Jun 17, 2010
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mad-scientist and computer programmer looking for something more interesting than most people accept as their future
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    This is my response to a debate between Ben Goertzel and Hugo De Garis who both build artificial intelligence and speculate about what it leads to and the possibility aliens may have already done it. Normal religions help us understand the universe as much as a 1000 year old physics book. That leaves a lot of questions... If you're not more confused about what the universe really is after reading this, then you must have missed something. If there is a god or not depends on your definition of "god", and most people don't bother to define it. I might be an atheist or not, and science might be able to test some things most people think can't even be defined or understood.

    "From cosmism to deism"

    "Is God an Alien Mathematician?"
    Then the thread was deleted and moved to:

    You can find my response at the bottom of the second link. Here it is:

    If the universe equals math then a lot of things fit together

    Most of what we've observed in science is very well approximated by small math equations. That's a fact. If the equations were a little different then physics probably wouldn't get past the first few steps of forming life. That's an other fact. Physics that is very (instead of a little) different could form different kinds of life, but the point is this part of the universe that we live in works so much better than a randomly selected physics that, to learn what physics (or "hyper-physics") really is, we must figure out why such a rare or improbable thing happened. There are 2 main categories of explanation: Rare and Improbable.

    If its Improbable but exists anyways, that implies something intelligent. Most religions and "Is god an alien mathematician" are in this category.

    If its Rare instead of Improbable, then enough things exist that, without needing anything intelligent to design it, this part of the universe just happened to be 1 of those many things. Max Tegmark's "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" (summarized as "All structures that exist mathematically exist also physically") is the simplest idea in this category.

    The We-Are-Rare and We-Are-Improbable categories should both be considered in science, including theories of superintelligent artilectual intelligences.

    Hugo de Garis is probably right about "humanity has invented on the order of about 100,000 different gods over the broad sweep of history, and across the planet. These many gods are so obviously invented", but if we say it as "100,000 theories of which most have been proven false" then we find the real problem in religions: They don't learn from their mistakes. They continue creating variations of failed theories instead of thinking in new ways.

    Theories are better when they are simpler and explain more things. The "Is god an alien mathematician" idea is compatible with some kinds of Buddhism, which Ben Goertzel said can be argued it "isn't really a religion." Ignoring the parts about what people should and shouldn't do and the details about things that happen on Earth, one of its bigger ideas is the emptiness of reality. If the "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" is true, then the universe simply is math, and math is purely abstract so doesn't really exist. On average, math and therefore the universe sum to nothing, but its parts individually exist because we're here experiencing them. The "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" requires there be an infinite number of superintelligent alien mathematicians, but it also requires there be an infinite number of everything else you can define in math.

    Ben Goertzel sees "Is god an alien mathematician" as a variation of the "simulation argument." Since technology will probably advance enough for artilects to appear god-like compared to us and create recursions of universes, the argument is we're probably in one of those simulations. You forgot to weight the probabilities. Its true there are many simulations in our computers today, but if we weight by the number of particles, all the simulations together are small compared to the particles in the computers which run the simulations, therefore if you're made of some particles then its more likely you're part of a computer (or are nowhere near a computer) than a simulation in that computer.

    I agree that large things (which small-brained Humans would call "universes" instead of "places with different physics") can be created by artilects with enough intelligence, and we could be in one, but considering my Weighted Simulation Argument, and considering that we don't know how far up the tree (or fractal or peer-to-peer-network) of recursive universes we are (We can't see below quantum physics yet), I expect theres a lot of potential in this part of the universe that we're just starting to learn how to use. An event as small as splitting a particle and its antiparticle could be seen as creating a new universe to those who experience the universe in a different way or size or pattern than we do.

    Math contains and is contained by an infinite variety of fractals, and the universe could equal math. How do you know your theoretical superintelligent artilects are more advanced than what we do by accident or what we do intentionally as mathematicians to physics in a statistical way (which we would not see since the effects are too small or too big)? When, for example, Ben Goertzel says "I've had my share of strange spiritual experiences, which have made me sometimes feel very directly in contact with transhuman intelligences", shouldn't we consider that some part of it could be real? And if we go that far, shouldn't we consider that Humans may intuitively know (through brains interactions with quantum physics) something these "transhuman intelligences" do not know? Why should we only consider theories where power is in a hierarchy/tree (this universe inside that universe) instead of fractal or network or strange-loop or emergent shapes? I will not make the assumption that there must be something higher or lower than me. Theres too many questions to ask first.
    Thu, Jan 20, 2011  Permanent link
    Categories: alien, AI, philosophy, religion, Fractal, math
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    They are becoming the same subject through unusual experiments. In recent years, some of the subjective experiences and things that were believed on faith are being scientifically proven. We now know that thinking certain things can directly cause other things to change from thousands of miles away. We're not sure why it happens, but we know it happens, and we know how to make it happen again with scientific devices measuring it. I have some theories on why it happens, but we should all think about this and say our own theories. Why do you think it happens?

    Right now you're probably thinking I'm making this up or misinterpreted some evidence or that I'm illogical. I have a masters degree in computer science and my current job title is "technology analyst". I build artificial intelligence for fun and research. It would be hard to find a more logical person than me. Please consider that when you read these illogical-appearing things. If you look into it deep enough, you can verify it.
    This relatively new branch of science is called parapsychology. It deals with certain things that are very hard to access and have a history of people making them up, but we can't let that stop us from learning how the universe really works through high quality peer-reviewed scientific experiments. We have enough evidence now that its time to expand parapsychology research with the same high priority as any other area of physics. Parapsychology is closer to physics than psychology because its about the connection between the mind (including brains and whatever else a mind may be made of) and things the mind directly affects from a distance. That's physics. Most physics researchers have a severe attitude problem when it comes to this kind of data that doesn't fit how they think the universe works. Anyone who ignores data that does not fit their theories is not a scientist.

    You can find some evidence in the "main results" section of

    I and 43000 other people participated in event 351 in their list of experiments, and event 351 alone was measured as a 97.1% chance (written as .029 chance its random) that whatever we were doing changed what their scientific devices measured at 70 places across the earth in a statistical way, devices that we don't know exactly where they are and most are thousands of miles away from us.

    In this comment  in this thread  I explain my experience in  event 351, but the important thing is the devices measured 97.1% and all the events together have a pattern when quantum physics would expect there to be no patterns.

    The devices are designed to generate random numbers based on quantum physics. For years they have sent those numbers to the computers of  and you can download any of those numbers from that website.

    The fact is some of what quantum physics predicts has been disproven. Most interpretations of quantum physics say that "heisenberg uncertainty"  will prevent any patterns from forming between what we think thousands of miles away and the quantum events measured by  But instead we found a pattern. There is 1 possible way the theory of "heisenberg uncertainty" can be saved: We don't have to know what those particles/waves are doing to statistically affect them. Either way, what we understand about quantum physics is about to change in a bigger way than learning Earth is not flat.

    That alone is enough evidence, but if you want more you can search for "parapsychology".

    I know from my direct experience that there is a skill that probably anyone can learn, the skill of thinking in certain patterns to make certain other things happen. Example: In this video  which I recorded in 2002, I had become skilled enough to think about the aluminum foil moving a certain direction and exactly that happened. In  event 351 I used that same skill in a different way. I tried to organize the other 43000 peoples' thoughts in the ways I know work for this kind of thing, and I used that skill on things which affected the quantum physics devices which were used to measure the 97.1% chance that event 351 worked.

    I've done lots of things like that, but the subject of this thread is not IF it works. Its been proven that something we don't yet understand is happening. The subject is WHY does it work? Why can 43000 people choose to think the same thing at the same time and cause those quantum physics devices to measure a pattern when what they normally find appears random? How can our minds have such a big (separated by thousands of miles) effect on reality?

    I think it works because the Kolmogorov Complexity of the universe is 0 which means the universe is a multiverse including all of an infinite number of variations of reality which occur in statistical clustering ways influenced by patterns of electricity in brains in a chaos-theory way. Details of that theory and how I plan to test it are at  and a shorter and less technical version of my plan I wrote as poetry at

    43000 people can change quantum physics events thousands of miles away just by trying to think the same thing without anything helping them organize their thoughts together. We just chose certain times and days and what we would all think about, and it worked. I'm designing a software to take these experiments to the next level. Through a peer-to-peer artificial intelligence network, the psychology of mouse movements interacting with realtime generated music (musical instruments you play with the mouse, and other user-interfaces), will be synchronized in patterns the artificial intelligence learns or creates. The software will compare the psychology of each person through the internet instantly and repeat many times per second. It will continuously get better at influencing the connection between our minds and lots of things connected to the internet including the timing of network delays.  only has 353 events so far. My software ( a plugin for Human AI Net  ) will do many events each second its running. What they have done manually my software will do automatically and continuously in realtime, and it will learn from that and write new Java code to define patterns for the next experiments. It already writes new Java code while it runs. The user-interface will be similar to Audivolv (  ) except it will learn in realtime instead of using good/bad buttons to teach it. This is all open-source software (GNU GPL, various versions) which means you can build more programs with it. You can use it to do your own research in your own ways if you want, or just use it to verify I did my experiments correctly. I'm trained to build software, but I'm going to become a parapsychology scientist. I'm going to the be first person to combine artificial intelligence and parapsychology, and I expect to find the connection between quantum physics and brains, something that will be more surprising (when I prove it) than learning that the Earth is not flat. My plan is to do research that will eventually lead to building machines that can do telepathy (mind reading from a distance) and machines that do what I did in this video  I plan to figure out what about Humans is doing those things and build machines to do the same thing. I expect that when we understand physics in that way, building a faster than light engine will be the next step. If the mind can move a piece of aluminum foil just by thinking it, then what would happen if we optimized that process in a machine and added some wings and a drivers seat? The answers are there. We have enough evidence to know what experiments to do next. This is going to happen. It may not be in my research, but we are going to learn why you can learn to think things to directly cause them to happen.

    We are going to merge science and religion into the same subject, a slow process that starts with parapsychology experiments. I'm not saying any 1 religion is true or not. I don't know if Jesus walked on water or if reincarnation of cows is the highest form of consciousness on this planet. As I see it those are only details. I'm looking for an equation that explains how the universe works, including whichever of those unusual things really happens. As a scientist, the idea of faith is offensive to me. Things should be experimented with and understood.

    Why do you think 43000 people were able to mentally put some patterns into quantum physics events thousands of miles away? What are we missing in our understanding of physics?
    Thu, Nov 25, 2010  Permanent link
    Categories: noosphere, religion, Science, parapsychology
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