aeonbeat     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
First we start doing it and then there won't be any need to think about this... :)
feanne     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
I guess, since it's an official holiday, most people are freed up from school/work, and so it's the time when most people are really available to have get-togethers with their loved ones.

Maybe you shouldn't overanalyze it, just enjoy it! :) Well not the traffic jams and the shopping madness, but the free time to spend with loved ones.
aeonbeat     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
...or on whatever you like. We shouldn't be that pessimistic, even if there are real reasons for it.
jTp     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
I feel the same way as you, Richard! This is my first official christmas as an atheist, so it feels very empty and trite to me. I have a large family and I do usually enjoy being around them, but it feels so dishonest and fake to celebrate a holiday that was originally pagan, and then co-opted by the church in the early years in order to get the people to celebrate/follow without losing their loved traditions.
Now it's just a day for more money making by the corporate machine whilst disguised as a family friendly day. Makes you wonder what we're worshipping now....
After saying all that, I did enjoy the day with just my husband. We ate Indian food and saw Sweeny Todd....with the rest of the heathens.
aeonbeat     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
please, focus on emotions, everybody feels good, you helped that, than everything's ok! don't overanalyze it! ;)
richard     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
I agree with feanne and jTp about embracing the opportunity to spend time with people. I am not sure about gouranga's comment:
please, focus on emotions, everybody feels good, you helped that, than everything's ok! don't overanalyze it! ;) (gouranga)
Is it wrong to overanalyze things? I think that analyzing familiar things helps us come to new understandings and outlooks on these. Defamiliarizing something as ordinary as Christmas can help us learn about ourselves and our social interactions.

Its nice to know that other people are having similar experiences. I appreciate your responses.
feanne     Wed, Dec 26, 2007  Permanent link
Oh and I am agnostic, so sometimes I feel funny celebrating CHRISTmas, but since that's not what I focus on— I just focus on hanging out with friends and family— whatever the holiday is called, doesn't matter much to me.

It isn't wrong to overanalyze, it just has some disadvantages like maybe making you a bit nearsighted or farsighted in your perspective of things, and perhaps you may not be able to see "the big picture" if you are too focused on scrutinizing its parts. However, you are right that it is always good to discuss and try to go beyond the surface of things. :)
aeonbeat     Thu, Dec 27, 2007  Permanent link
I think it is good that you doubt, because one way or another you will find what's worth, when you reanalyze it and be happy for real next time it happens :) probably it is even impossible to miss the moment of clarity.

I had e wonderful conversation last night, the same example, almost the same subject. i have a relative who's a nihilist. as he points out, nihilism is impossible to describe with words, since words are positive and affirmative and this is exactly what nihilism is not. he says he was with his family on christmas some years ago and everybody on the table proposed a toast. he though, didn't raise his glass. they asked him to do it just for the moment, seems like they believe this matters. but he wouldn't do it, because he sees recognizes a scheme, like it is shallow and pointless. so everybody starts crying, he leaves the room and ruins everything.

Now what you do is almost the same, since you don't make it that bad, because you probably didn't fucked up everything and make somebody sad, instead of having a good time, enjoying. Seemed like he was right all the time we were talking, following a strong logic, although talking against people of ratiocination (???). seems like there is no point in doing anything in your life, since energy is never wasted, but still he goes everyday for the fridge, opens it, takes some food and eats it, just to support his body, so he stays here, wherever this is... saying that the river can't choose to stop, so does his body... now that was ridiculous... a shallow excuse - you don't find meaning in anything, but still continueing.

this is what i mean by missing the moment...
elenakulikova     Thu, Jan 3, 2008  Permanent link
I'm not sure if I agree with your post - Merry Christmas is beautiful and has a lot of meaning, it only loses meaning if you let that happen. if the words don't mean much to you, then it is your creation. And I'm not sure I understand this - If the I love you seems redundant, then you are already doing things right. how can redundancy, unnecessary repetition in excess, especially of the words I love you be right?
Orizyn     Thu, Jan 3, 2008  Permanent link
As you see we don't all agree. That is a wonderful thing. As for your feelings on this Christmas thing, from my point of view, you are waking up to reality. But be careful. You are like a person with a straight pin in your hand around a great many people with their heads in a bubble. Humans do love a good illusion and it must be good for the economy.
Now I can still hear the sweet ring of the nail being hit on the head with your "I love you" comment.
Be yourself and keep sharing please.
elenakulikova     Thu, Jan 3, 2008  Permanent link

if you think you are living in a commercialised world and christmas doesn't mean anything to you, you see it as a frienze for people to make exuses of get togethers, yes then being cinical about this season would be your reality, you haven't been given any truth or discovered the 'real' reality. christmas is bad if you make it to be, or reasons why .. but christmas wouldn't even exist if we didn't think of it. Like Anais In wrote, 'we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." ... there is no burst of anybody's bubble, only yours ... the other people are not living in your 'bubble'
richard     Sun, Jan 6, 2008  Permanent link
Thank you for your responses/ideas.

In response to elenakulikova's comment, let me clarify what I mean by "if the I love you seems redundant, then you are already doing things right." According to the American Heritage dictionary, the definition of redundant is "exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous." I suppose what I mean is that if saying I love you on this special occasion seems superfluous, then perhaps a relationship of love has already established - with or without words.

I also want to clarify that the disillusionment has taken place only within myself, and I do not intend to say that my view is better than anyone else's view on the subject.

Here's a page excerpt from a book called Be Here Now by the Hanuman Foundation. I was given this gift for Christmas, and was reading on a plane today. It is appropriate both for its content and the situation of how it came to me.

Counterform     Sun, Jan 6, 2008  Permanent link
On the language & symbols of 'Love'.

aeonbeat     Sun, Jan 6, 2008  Permanent link
great! if you don't love me, than you make it impossible for my love to connect with yours! that was simply great! it doesn't mean to stop loving someone because he doesn't. love under will and do what you will, we connect = we evolve! thanks for that waking life scene, amazing...