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Richard Caceres (M)
Los Angeles, US
Immortal since Jan 19, 2007
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why is there why and not just what?
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    some thoughts about thought
    The following is a journal type entry so please excuse the poor writing.

    there is so much complexness in every detail about everyday it is funny to try to recall and focus on every aspect. there is enough to keep the outer layer of the mind and thought processes occupied. I have been realizing lately that it is possible to employ inner layers of thought to perform active thinking - create programs for my mind. For example, I can image that I am playing piano or bass, and actually practice the instrument in my head. For example, I can recite chord progressions in my head, or transpositions, or voicings, all in my head while waiting for the bus. It is a very literal image for me to image myself putting a cap on the meaningless chit-chat in my brain, and invoke this more productive use of this computer in my body.

    I have also been thinking about the body a lot. I have been fascinated by simple sensations such as touch and sight, and then I have also been fascinated by superficial emotions such as lust, and I have decided that lust is animalistic, and civilized human beings do more productive things with their times. If this sounds scary to you, then I am scared too, because what am I becoming?

    I am addicted to the computer, and it is depriving me of my life. It is separating me from reality and experiences that are passing me by, such as, friends, family, nature, ... youth.

    Sat, Mar 31, 2007  Permanent link

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    rene     Wed, Apr 4, 2007  Permanent link
    Great posts. I'd say don't worry, but if it gets to be too much, start a twelve step program for computer addiction. After all, there's one for every other addictive behavior, including animalistic lust.
    meganmay     Wed, Apr 4, 2007  Permanent link
    you're like the first feeling robot. SWEET!
    meganmay     Wed, Aug 6, 2008  Permanent link
    I have to say, this is still one of my favorite posts on Space Collective. I was just thinking the other day how I use my mind, my mind is mine not because i own it, but because it is at my disposal, available for processing the information i find interesting or stimulating. But I can also misuse its processing capabilities for petty thoughts or end up swimming in ideas without knowing how to come up for air. It's a very interesting organization of matter and I'm trying not to waste its power on the petty lust, which i've actually concluded is fairly boring recently. I want an upgrade.
    Spaceweaver     Fri, Aug 8, 2008  Permanent link
    It is strange using a description as if 'mind' belongs to 'I', while 'I', whatever that is, is, in fact, a product of mind. Why should a thought, a feeling, an emotion, or even a whole mind be owned by anything? And having something at my disposal, is it not a kind of ownership?

    Should Descartes' "I think therefore I am", have actually been "I possess therefore I am"?
    Do we know ourselves for the thoughts that arise in our minds, or for owning these thoughts ?
    What could possibly happen if we let thoughts and everything else be free of 'I' ?

    Here is an alternative, not the only one, but one that can make a huge difference: I am the thought being thought now. Full identity instead of the asymmetry of owner-owned relation.
    What would this imply? A complete paradigm shift in the way we interact with ourselves, with others, and with the world.

    Our minds are conditioned by the language we use to describe ourselves. Yet in language there is a choice. What do you think?
    Xarene     Fri, Aug 8, 2008  Permanent link
    For example, I can image that I am playing piano or bass, and actually practice the instrument in my head.
    After this, do you feel like you've actually, in all your physically believable reality, have practiced the instrument? (I say yes.) Are you then suddenly embarrassed, maybe, to realize it was your mind and not your body that was vividly engaged in the activity? (I have been.) Some may think you imagined the practice and therefore you never practiced because you physically didn't have possession of the saxophone...

    Spaceweaver, I would deduct and ask What could possibly happen if we let thoughts and everything else be free? Excessive notions of ownership, especially valued individual possession of 'things', such as thought creations, is a product of Capitalism, which leads to a misunderstanding and abuse of the extension of ownership to the self. In which case either our body owns our mind and if not owned by our own account, we are owned by another's. 'Possess' and 'possession' are words to eliminate from our language because if I am the thought being thought now, by taking full possession of the thought and disposing of it as pleased, I am in fact depriving one part of myself of any rights.

    meganmay     Wed, Sep 17, 2008  Permanent link

    I suppose what I meant to imply is this - I see everyone as a local network within a larger network of ideas. The value of the local network is that the unique filters or frameworks that determine how information flows through any given individual ideally yield a diverse set of ideas. Clearly this operates within the context of the larger network which is essentially the sum of all possible feedback relationships. I tend to think this is a functional distinction to make, but I completely agree in the problematics of implying ownership over ideas. Ultimately, I think the distinction between my brain and your brain is an unfortunate side effect of our perceived seperateness in the tangible dimension where bodies reside. In reality, when we have a conversation our local networks extend out towards one another, generating disturbances which we take with us as we go on to experience the larger network of ideas comprised of all the minds on planet earth. I value the diversity of ways in which we operate on the collective space. I really appreciate your views on this subject and I wonder how or whether these ideas correspond to your unique framework (or the area of our collective brain space to which your mental processes are most devoted).
    Spaceweaver     Fri, Sep 26, 2008  Permanent link
    Thank you Meganmay,

    When we on to a lively and emotionally engaging exchange of ideas, when the game is on, we forget 'you' and 'I', we even forget 'we'. There is only the game, the dance, of an expanding thought. The date on your comment is September 17th, I have just seen it this morning. Nine days have passed but the continuity of our thought exchange is undisturbed. I see no gap of space or time in this meeting of minds.

    The brain, this temporary residence of an expanding mind, initially evolved to facilitate the continuation of certain biological configurations we call human beings and human species.
    This function is entirely localized and certainly invites concepts such as ownership and territory. Thought, abstract thought as we come to know today, is perhaps not more than a serendipitous emergence, a daydream of sorts just arising while turning the wheels of the survival machine. A funny analogy comes to mind: A hard motivated worker, that at the end of the workday keeps going about her life, but cannot stop being occupied with her job. The very fact we can think is probably because we have the leisure of freeing our minds from the chores of immediate survival. This is how good we became at surviving, we should really be proud ! But now, after thousands of years of doing this job, surviving that is, instead of enjoying our growing free mind resources, we cannot stop thinking about work! Its really a bad habit, especially considering that we do not need it anymore, and it keeps shaping our thoughts sensations emotions and what not.

    As to your more specific question, I like to refer to mind as an inherently open source commodity, and to myself as a virtual being by that meaning that this mind is not inherently bound to its biological substratum, it is merely circumstantially bound to it. With this conceptual shift, many survival bound concepts simply lose their significance. A great sense of freedom accompanies such perspective on life.

    rene     Fri, Sep 26, 2008  Permanent link
    meganmay, spaceweaver:

    This is one of my favorite exchanges and unusually encouraging at that. If this thread could be turned into a larger discussion about today's liberated thought processes I'm sure it would turn a lot of people on to the empowerment suggested in Meganmay's notion of local networks extending out towards one another and the sense of freedom accompanying Spaceweaver's perspective on life. It would be great to promote these ideas in a more visible way. As a big fan of Spaceweaver's body of work on this site, I've been wondering how his distinct philosophy can be publicized in the most comprehensive way. Perhaps along the lines of the Polytopia project, or in conjunction with it. Clearly, there is some important thinking going on here, worthy of serious promotion. I would love to see it become more accessible on the site. None of this takes away of course from the significance of Richard's original post being revived by this conversation which was started long before Space Collective went public. That these posts keep resurfacing is in itself reassuring, but I hope we'll find other ways to organize the content as well. Any thoughts on that will be much appreciated.
    connor     Thu, Oct 2, 2008  Permanent link
    Visualization is actually a commonly used technique of athletic development. It can be used to fine tune your state of emotional arousal or as you were mentioning, can be used to practice technique. I think it is great that we can create muscle memory without using the muscles at all and is a much more productive use of the brain than lusting over somebody at the bus stop.

    Here is a short article about it:

    I see no gap of space or time in this meeting of minds.

    I really like this comment. The interface that current depicts our internet often gives reference to time, but does not reflect it in form. What this made me think, though, is that this same interface reinforces the linear causality that is also reinforced through our understanding of time...

    The perspective that you are offering does not necessarily follow a cause and effect pattern, so my open ended question is: will the internet, in its form, break away from this paradigm? Will people then learn from it and experience the world with a different relationship to time?

    Just wanting people's opinions on this.

    we cannot stop thinking about work!

    ...and religion, and the religion of the 20th / 21st century has been consumerism... :-/

    Clearly, there is some important thinking going on here, worthy of serious promotion.

    You have a good point, I don't feel that the site is doing a good enough job of this currently.

    Since I don't want my comment to be too long, and I am not sure that this is related to the post, I won't get into the interface any more... Maybe I will send suggestions/comments to rene directly?